Server FPS Issues!`

[Deadman]

We have found a massive amount of lag reduced by wiping the database.  This resulted in a 40 % increase across the board to all parties that tested the change.  This was tested with both high end Nvidea and AMD cards as well as lower end cards and we found this increase was effective to all.  We are going to perform a server wipe to the server within the next ten days.  We are also going to begin wiping the server in either a 4 month time frame or 6 month time frame to ensure that we keep the server working as it should.  There will be a starting tab that all players that have logged into the server within the last month will get to help get started.  We are trying to decide between 100,000 tabs or 250,000 tabs.  Let us know your thoughts and concerns in a reply.  Also, tell us what tabs should be started with and why so we can decide what will work the best.  At this time we are not going to refund/start with respect.  This will help reduce base size for a while.  Thanks guys!

[Corylus]

THE TESTS

(1) The lag was decreased by 40%? or the FPS was decreased by 40%? or both?

(2) The tests were performed with the current set of missions and AI scripts running?

(3) The tests were performed with the current server population numbers?

(4) What client side settings were the testers using?

(5) Could the same increases or better increases be generated by reducing the number of missions or AI scripts?

I am sceptical of the results of your tests (especially without seeing the parameters) and worried that the proposed solutions simply won't solve the issues at all. Either they will provide a weeks worth of magical performance before the status quo returns or just a minor improvement. Your treating the symptoms not the problem.

I don't find it surprising that you can get a 40% increase in performance by removing two of the three key features which bring the players to the server. The third being the roaming AI scripts. A good analogy would be chopping your legs off to become 40% lighter to solve a weight problem.

The biggest issue the server has imho is the economy is broken. You can buy and have anything you want pretty much instantly so keeping things, earning things and not treating everything like disposable toys is huge issue. This mentality probably creates 90% of the database clutter.

There are two ways to reduce the number of 'things' on the map. Make them harder to get. Remove the necessity to have them in the first place.

BASE AND VEHICLES

If you want to tackle the vehicle issue here some options (a) increase their price (b) remove the towing script © reduce their resale value (d) loadout vehicle script for spawning players (d) reduce the despawn time of abandoned player vehicles (e) increase the number of spawn points to encourage people to play on foot (f) add more vendors (g) limit the number of vehicles per player (or per base). At the moment people treat even the highest end vehicles like disposable toys, driving around destroying everything in a 1.5km radius until the vehicle gets destroyed. Then they blame the FPS and server performance - rinse and repeat. If you remove the towing script and/or decrease vehicle resale value then you solve a lot of your economy issues. The majority of revenue raised by players is from captured vehicles. You can drive around in a Cheetah and earn 50-250k an hour easily. If you add more vendors people are going to stop abandoning hundreds of vehicles, hoarding hundreds of vehicles at their base, and generally hoarding equipment all over the map and at their bases. Some further suggestions below.

The problem is current players bases or abandoned bases not being recycled quick enough? Bases cause lag locally where there are high concentrations? They need to render as players move into the area? People are going to build bases near spawn points and traders. (a) Increase the number of vendors (even if the vendors just buy and don't sell/sell extremely limited number of items) and spawn points. Open up the map and disperse the pbase. The majority of players are clumped together in tiny area for a very good reason and mostly out of necessity. (b) Increase the flag pole costs. © Remove the building supplies from the traders. Make them cut down the trees and scavenge the scrap metal and stop being so lazy! Make the act of building a base an achievement (d) increase the distance between flag poles.

My post is very short because of the word limit. I would like to have been able to make a stronger argument for each point.

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WHY DO I HOARD?

If I make the bold assumption that players have similar needs/playstyle to myself, why do I have so much 'stuff'?

Vehicles provide the most accessible and mobile form of storage. I can't get the stuff I want to keep into a single or couple of vehicles so I maintain a whole fleet. I have more vehicles as well to go out and collect loot from roaming AI and missions. If you want to do a mission at the moment you have to take two high capacity vehicles with you. (a) Why not remove the loot in the crates and merely replace it with bundles of monies? Make the AI corpses/guns despawn quicker to remove the necessity to strip down and loot every corpse? (b) increase the capacity of vehicles so players don't need to have whole fleets © increase the ammo capacity of vehicles so people don't need to have ammo trucks scattered all over the map (d) alternatively remove the ammo trucks from the vendors and have only static ammo dumps (either ammo trucks locked by admins at key positions or use the rearm/repair scripts) (e) ditto for fuel trucks (except we already have petrol stations and fuel pumps you can buy at the DP vendor).

Why does my base use so many pieces? Firstly I reduced my piece by 200 pieces to around the 50-100 mark. Then I discovered the DP buildings were very flimsy. Make the DP buildings indestructible and cost more. This way I don't feel the need to cover them with wooden and reinforced walls to stop my vehicles and buildings being destroyed by friendly fire/malicious players. My base is fortified and the size it is for two reasons (a) the ridiculous amount of HE being sprayed everywhere by players and crashing helicopters (b) to stop stuff being stolen © to gain height so I can compete with players in tanks with radars engaging at the 1-2.5km radius. My base is not fortified to protect against AI (d) most importantly because it is fun to build.

What 'stuff' do I hoard? I hoard ammunition, clothes and food. Clothes are hoarded because of the bug. I keep a mountain of food/drink because I consume it so fast. You need to consume way before you get to red because of the shakes to aiming. It is very annoying/dangerous to have to stop halfway through combat or four or five times during a mission to eat/drink. (a) Reduce the need to eat/drink as frequently (b) add more water coolers/make them cheaper at the DP vendor © more loot spawns for food.

BAMBI STUFF?

Do we need to have as much loot spawning in buildings as we do at the moment? How much of it is ever picked up by new players? Would having more spawn points and trader access remove the a lot of this necessity? Can we be more charitable as pre-existing players to new players?  Could players merely spawn with more or better gear and we do away with a lot of the loot spawning or all of it?

Sorry post got eaten by limit had to split it into two parts.

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Editted to add:

I am not bothered about a wipe, how much tabs I get back (zero is fine), or how frequent the wipes come. Just as long as I know when. The only concern I have with the wipe is the behaviour of players leading up to the wipe. I want to enjoy myself without being stomped on by people going batshit crazy and just YOLO'ing all over the map in an attempt to spend all their money and destroy everything.

[Deadman]

We love your points.

1: When I log into the current configuration I get 25 frames with 6 players on.

2: When I join the test server with a smaller CPU set the same with only a database wipe I get 50 frames (even with the jets flying and spawning in the new AI system)

We are looking for this kind of feedback, especially from our longer standing members. We would love to reduce the problem but in the mean time while we set all that up we need to do something dramatic to help first. I am not convinced that it is just the buildings because there are systems in place that should be removing those after they are abandoned. Part of what people do like here is the ease of play ( how fast you can make money's ) So if we go playing around with the loot/traders I would like to ensure we aren't killing the population. You are the reason we are doing this. If you get on and let us know that you do not want this then we can discuss other things.

The end subject is, if we want some performance increase we have to remove some database items. If you want that permanent then we will have to remove some mods. If you want 50 + frames then we need an exile only server. That is what we are seeing. I have joined dozens of other servers with similar mods and AI loads as well as player loads in the past couple of weeks and have found no real difference other than the ones that had a recent wipe were faster. Less lag, more frames. I can't see your machine or how you play. If you explode everything then there will be lag. #1stworldArmaproblems!

[wareagle252]

I know I have only been on the server for a few weeks, but I figured I would chine in with my opinion and what I have seen.

I play on a mid-lower range machine and normally do reasonably well considering the machine and fact that I am playing from a barracks in Korea.  That being said, I normally run at lower FPS than most everyone else with a higher ping.  Aside from the occasional server lags which is understandable, I have found the server up until about 3 days ago very playable, even with view settings moved to 2000m and object to 1500.  When the roving AI script was removed temporarily I saw very little in the way of improved constant FPS increase.  At central trader and around the power plant, which host high objects and constant movement in area by both players and AI, I expect normal FPS reductions when entering and loading the areas.  I have had very little in the way of game crashing FPS even in those zones.  I know everyone wants super high frame rates, but I agree that it seems like we are treating a wipe and reset as a "Fix All" when at best it will get a few weeks of relief with again gradually slowing down of FPS.

One thing I have seen is the last two nights I have played (Korea) so I assume two days for you, is the increased AI riding in vehicles and spawning has made lag spikes almost game ending.  For example a AI bus coming down the road to power plant disabled kicks out 16 ai soldiers.  Jeeps are kicking out 8.  Now this is not a big deal in and of itself, but that itself from 600m away has turned the new AI into a prestige farm.  You can easily get 10-20k respect in a matter of a few minutes with the AI spawning with these high numbers.  Now if you mulitply the AI spawning around if players are clustered around the map, along with the missions, it will also create a large draw.   Without that AI present, even with all the bases frame rates (for me) were stable and playable, missions could be completed.  So I think there needs to be a balance.  Again I have only been playing on this server for a few weeks and not longer term like most on this, but this PVE server to me is one of the better ones because of the community and player willingness to help each other out.   As a new player, others were always willing to help out.  If things get alot harder to aquire and keep going, then people will be less likely to risk their toys to help out.  Yes some people have alot of toys and throw them around recklessly because they can farm more quickly.  So the question is, how can the economy be adjusted to support less toys or ppls willingness to just buy and hoard.  So how can you move ppl away from the main couples roads, reduce player base size and equipment.  I have a few ideas that I think would help bring balance and push people away from just camping central trader area.  For starters, atleast for me, running missions are more fun even if its a easy mission that a attack chopper does two runs on gets 5k in loot, I would rather do that then sit on the side of a road waiting for AI spawns.  But we do it because its more profitable to get that madrid or gorgon and sell it than run a mission.  And with AI's engaging ppl at 2k out and with ground spawns out of necessity ppl hang around central trader to work together.  

1) Increase mission rewards to reasonable amount.  Give a good variety of missions if possible with scripting to say spawn couple easy, med, hard, impossible difficulty missions of players of all ranges can do something other than camp roads and build bases along trader.    Maybe lessen AI engagement ranges a little so players would be able to build away from trader and not worry about a generals fob 2k away blowing their transport heli up on lift off so they can courier loot to trader.  (For example a player uses a gunship and strafes a deranged doctors)  Between flight time, clear, loot, and sell players may invest 20-30 mintues.  But pay off is only 10-15k.  In that same time I can usually get myself atleast one higher end AI vehicle and make 30-40k.  If you lessen the amount spawning and the value missions will pull people away from camping get them spread out.  

2) Less the amount of roving AI vehicles (high end wise) if possible with scripting.  Make it so people will want to run missions and push out from the central area.  

3) If possible limit the amount of objects in bases scaling with the flag size to a certain limit.  

Continued

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1) As far as a vehicle cap this is my idea.

Players can maintain the following:

2 Heavy Tank/Vehicles

4 Medium Tanks/APCs

Etc, or just a cap on how many vehicles a character can own overall.

This way the server could limit the amount that players can have at any given time, help make vehicles more valuable and make players choose their fleet, and allow them to continue to generate income without worrying if in a month or two other players who just spend everything they have is gonna get the server wiped and their work and hundreds of hours put in gone. But I also think that tabs should be able to carry over thru a wipe and as long a vehicle cap is in place then atleast people can remain somewhat invested in their continual gameplay instead of knowing they will lose it within a couple months.

With scripting I am not sure how you can tweak the prestige system but maybe remove the crazy amounts of prestige earned by camping and farming AI and make that a additional mission reward. Yes I am seeing this from my point of view and not probably taking into account what most people think, but personally the most fun I have had is working with two other players as we strafed a mission site with gunships while ground players did their thing. I think just wiping the server is just applying a bandaid and isnt going to fix anything long term.

I have also heard the idea of lease vehicles from traders. Say you lease a vehicle for a certain percentage of cost and as server restart the vehicle leaves. I cant count how many quads I have seen lingering around because when players die the buy one, drive to their body and leave it there. And again, not a script writer so don't know if this is possible, but maybe in certain areas create AHA's, or ammunition storage points with refuel etc. Almost every player base had these spread across the map with refuel, ammo, repair etc. If there were several areas where these were staged, maybe near trader zones, then it would be more practical as well for players to move away from central for decent support for what they area doing. Just a few ideas, sorry if I rambled.

Just my thoughts

Tony

[X8(xeight)]

Ok well.

A wipe might be a good idea.

Notice theres been very few people on the last 2 nights, probably dont want to play knowing its going to get a wipe and they will only get a fraction of thier money back.

It was a simple enough thing last time to copy paste thier money/rep from the old database to the new one.

and while they are not playing here they are playing on other servers that dont have an impending wipe.

Do you think setting the auto delete from 20 days to 10 would work rather than a wipe? it should clear half the vehicles and half the bases right away?

Would kinda suck for people that cant get on every day, out of town working, holidays etc.

As for restricting the number of vehicles players can have, bad idea, any time we put restrictions or tell players how to play thier game, bad idea.

I think it was bunny, back in the old days of dayz, tried to restrict vehciles to just 2, one ground and one air and no boats (i lived on an island), per player. We nearly had a falling out over that.

I only had 7 and they were my donator vics. As i pointed out different vics for different jobs. I have only 6 now on arma3 but each has its unique job that the others cant.

Civ littlebird for quick trips to trader and helping people back to thier body.

cargo chopper for doing very distant missions.

KA52 because.

cargo truck and strider for closer missions and looting the military base.

Tank because sometimes you just need to drive one around to feel like a man.

Most players would also need the 3 trucks (repair/refuel/rearm). I dont use vic weapons, i do use ducttape and dont have a tank right now, i live near a gas station. So i dont need those 3.

All players will need storage too, Safes are usless for storage since the cut the capacity to almost nothing. Most have had horrible luck with pods, so 2 or 3 more vics for keeping thier stuff in.

Then there are other things, AA base defence, kart/quad just for fun, a veriety to keep things interesting.

I think it would be unreasonable for us to restrict at all, and game breaking to restrict below about 15 per player.

Im sure if we could get the gas station repair/rearm script working that would cut down on a bunch naturaly without us having to restrict.

Someone said change the loot crate contents just for money bundles. Couple reasons why not.

Realism, Roleplay, i changed the contents to be appropriate for the mission story.

Bank robbery is money bundles, medical has meds, food transport has food, gun truck has guns etc etfc.

Would seem odd capturing a gun truck to find only money in it.

Second, its an optional time sync to make it fair for the other players who also want to do missions, more important now than ever that there are only 3 missions up at a time.

Right now if you want the loot it will take you a little time, so another player can go do the new mission that just popped while you are still busy.

If the loot is just money bundles, which have 0.002 weight (or there abouts) you can carry hundreds on your person. Fast attack chopper, blow the mission away, grab the money and fly to the next mission. You could just circle the map alone clearing all the missions and getting all the loot. Anyone in a slower vic couldnt do any missions while you are on doing that.

Besides, i cant imagine the mission loot causes any performance loss. Any loot you dont take will be cleared up by the mission script a few mins after you leave the area. The stuff you do take goes straight to the recycler and is sold. Either way, shortly after the mission ends everything is gone.

Capturing and Selling AI vics. OGG is prety unique in that. since A3Ai is no longer available, the other main AI scripts like sargeAI as far as i know dont use vics. Even so i had to screw around with it to make them capturable.

Many of our players love it that this is a different way to make money in the game, rather than the usual mission runs and looting the barracks.

The sales price has to be worth it for the risk and as an alternate to mission runs. Maybe dropping the sale price from half to quarter?

Although, its been suggested before and i think its a good idea. To get that rent a vehicle for half price script back in. certainly reduce the clutter of karts and quads 

However, they clear themselves up after 20 days and a few days ago we went around the map/database and deleted the 30-ish karts and quads in random places and didnt notice any change.

Posted by Corylus

"... and worried that the proposed solutions simply won't solve the issues at all. Either they will provide a weeks worth of magical performance before the status quo returns or just a minor improvement. Your treating the symptoms not the problem."

I agree, its always been the same, fantastic frames  for a week till people get thier bases back up then things return to normal.

Massive bases are the problem.

I already made a couple attempts to improve that, as did Jason with the DP buildings.

I reduced the building items alowance per tier and twice doubled the upkeep costs.

The frame rate is fine and the performance excellent, as Deadman said any comparable server for mods and hardware get exactly the same fps as us.

If we want to double the frames we have to half the mods and thats when theres less stuff to do and people get bored.

HLC? i wouldnt mind seeing that one dissapear. But the rest are all prety important, unless there are equivilants that use less resources?

Posted by Corylus

"The biggest issue the server has imho is the economy is broken."

Yes, it didnt used to be. Back when i was gradualy adding bigger and bigger vehicles to the trader i was checking how much people had and setting the prices of the new vics so only the top 2 players could afford one right away.

The AI were relativly harder because the players didnt have access to the fancy toys. Players would die more and lose more.

I have increased the AI difficulty as the players have been getting better and getting access to better gear. but there is only so far i can go with the AI. The AI have hit their peak of being hard without being insane but the players keep getting better, smarter and richer. killing more AI and dying less, losing less.

Maybe the resale price of vics and the contents of loot crates should be halved?

Maybe jack the base upkeep even more way way up so only the very rich can afford more than a small box? New players wont be able to throw up a base in their first hour and if the old players want something big they are going to have to pay a hell of a lot for it?

Posted by wareagle252

"1) Increase mission rewards to reasonable amount.  Give a good variety of missions if possible with scripting to say spawn couple easy, med, hard, impossible difficulty missions of players of all ranges can do something other than camp roads and build bases along trader.    Maybe lessen AI engagement ranges a little so players would be able to build away from trader and not worry about a generals fob 2k away blowing their transport heli up on lift off so they can courier loot to trader.  (For example a player uses a gunship and strafes a deranged doctors)  Between flight time, clear, loot, and sell players may invest 20-30 mintues.  But pay off is only 10-15k.  In that same time I can usually get myself atleast one higher end AI vehicle and make 30-40k.  If you lessen the amount spawning and the value missions will pull people away from camping get them spread out.  

2) Less the amount of roving AI vehicles (high end wise) if possible with scripting.  Make it so people will want to run missions and push out from the central area. "

I already significantly increased the loot crate contents and made them appropriate to the mission story. By default all the crates were the same, something like 8 guns, 16 mags, and a backpack. But now you actualy get meds from the med mission and food from the food mision etc, rather than a few hundred credits its tens of thousands on the easy green missions, the blacks can give upto about 120k.

I dont know, Corylus thinks we should reduce the loot, that players are too rich.

Discounting the static missions, there are an equal number of each colour difficulty with an equal chance of spawning in. I wrote one of each new green/yellow/red a couple weeks back to balance the numbers.

The roaming vics, the AI have access to around 50 from bikes thru carts and quads, a great many humvees and UAZ's and only around 7 you would call high end. And an equal random chance which vic spanws. With only around 10 vics on the map at a time and a 20min wait for respanws with only a 7/50 chance of getting highend... you are right tho, there does seem to be highends up more often than you would think there should be.

Other things, maybe reduce the ammount of serverspawn loot, reduce or turn off the server spawn vics if possible (show me where i can take a look at it) maybe turn back on the spawn town bikes but swap out for quads.

I see from the database simply reducing the 20 day auto delete for base/vics to 16 days would take a whole lot out. 14 days just seems a little short. 20 sounds fine but for the good of the server a small drop might be a good thing.

Frames at the trader, what do you think about turning on the Exile auto unlock vics left at trader option. It would be on by default and i expect most other server would leave it on. Im not sure i really like it either but something needs to be done. It was one of our rules on arma2, any vic left unatended inside trader at any time would be deleted no questions asked.

[wareagle252]

I didnt know the mission loot was bumped up already lol.  I do like the idea of the loot matching with the missions and helping players knowing that they can expect a certain type based on the mission.

As far as AI difficulty, I dont think there is a huge issue with it but while difficulty has been scaled with the more powerful and shinier stuff players have there is i think reducing resale would help a bit bit thats just me.  Because Your right, there does need to be a equal amount of risk vs reward.  The last couple days i played there had been less high end stuff from what i had seen compared to the lower end vehicles, that and the increased amount of AI infantry kicking out of the vehicles.

[Phoenix]

My View.

Since I basically own nothing A wipe does not bother me. As for caps 100K is fine but I go with nothing, half the fun is climbing the ladder, and the risk of being thin on ammo and gear and gambling to make your situation better.

However many with a lot more time in server than me would disagree. so in deference to them 100K is about right 250K is more than I have now! and with prices as they are I don't need to run missions etc unless I want to. I can easily survive gunning AI on death road. So I've reached infinite survival. esp since I keep all my cash when I do get killed.

I guess we need to get a stronger vision as to what type of game play is desired on the server. I am sure you guys have/had one. What is it?

I think there needs to be a Spawn point in the far NW of the map. Its completely deserted out there and if you die out there it a hell of a job getting back to your body. Making life easier out there would probably spread out the load away from death road and really the only trader used. How about removing that trader and place it in a true geographic center. (Note I've no idea if this is possible. )

That is something that has not been proposed. It may naturally spread everyone out. and at least reduce localilzed frame rate issues.

Vehicles should unlock in say 17 days, long enough for a two week vacation.Then they are fair game to be recycled and De spawn in 20

bases should decay and be gone in the same time frame if not cared for.

Make base building more organic (as corylus has suggested will probably make them smaller, and fewer)

Limit the number of pieces per base. DP helped a lot with this, but it appears "the break it you bought it" of it has made things worse. Now we have more Arma buildings than ever AND all the wood parts to protect the 20K investment.

I don't know without a greater more definitive understanding of what exactly the lag issue are its hard to say.

ARMA been around a long time chances are good that the reason that caused LAG in the past are the same today. DO how was it handled in the past. I've never seen an ARMA server wiped.

I'd try a measured approach before wiping.

[wareagle252]

Also for the trader vehicles i think a couple days then cleared would suffice.  I think if bases are more expensive and lower end players wouldnt be able to stand up a base right away, they still need a place to be able to stage from while learning the ropes and may not get a ton of time to play bit a couple days would be sufficient to allow players to be able get a flagpole or find a location to park other than trader.

[Corylus]

As for restricting the number of vehicles players can have, bad idea, any time we put restrictions or tell players how to play thier game, bad idea.

You have players with 50+ vehicles. I think that is extreme. I feel guilty for running a dozen or so but I can see why people might want 10-20. But do they want better fps more? personally I can live with the low fps and I can live with a more restrictive server but I don't want to live with a server that loses its current veteran population or admins because those are the two selling points of the server.

Most players would also need the 3 trucks (repair/refuel/rearm). I dont use vic weapons, i do use ducttape and dont have a tank right now, i live near a gas station. So i dont need those 3. All players will need storage too, Safes are usless for storage since the cut the capacity to almost nothing. Most have had horrible luck with pods, so 2 or 3 more vics for keeping thier stuff in. Then there are other things, AA base defence, kart/quad just for fun, a veriety to keep things interesting.

Increase the capacity of vehicles so players don't need a fleet of box vans. The little tow truck that has just been added is a brilliant addition. It carries the same as three tempests/zamaks! I just wish the softskins had more realistic carrying capacities. The big trucks especially.

I think it would be unreasonable for us to restrict at all, and game breaking to restrict below about 15 per player.

Im sure if we could get the gas station repair/rearm script working that would cut down on a bunch naturaly without us having to restrict.

Put a locked ammo and repair truck at each petrol station?

Besides, i cant imagine the mission loot causes any performance loss. Any loot you dont take will be cleared up by the mission script a few mins after you leave the area. The stuff you do take goes straight to the recycler and is sold. Either way, shortly after the mission ends everything is gone.

Okay. Then my comments relating to that are null and void. I just assumed that quantity stuff = problem.

Capturing and Selling AI vics. OGG is prety unique in that. since A3Ai is no longer available, the other main AI scripts like sargeAI as far as i know dont use vics. Even so i had to screw around with it to make them capturable.

Many of our players love it that this is a different way to make money in the game, rather than the usual mission runs and looting the barracks.

Yes. It is a very strong selling point but at the moment it trumps any other playstyle to the point that it interferes with people on foot using softskins and those trying to do missions as quite simply the game is locked in an arms race against players with big pewpew vehicles.

The sales price has to be worth it for the risk and as an alternate to mission runs. Maybe dropping the sale price from half to quarter?

Yes. Imho. This is a good longterm solution. Better game performance also increases the longevity of helicopters, so even if they are more expensive or take longer to earn they will last a damn sight longer.

Although, its been suggested before and i think its a good idea. To get that rent a vehicle for half price script back in. certainly reduce the clutter of karts and quads 

I have seen the script which allows you to spawn a vehicle when you spawn/respawn. Could we not have that and do away with all the world spawns?

I already made a couple attempts to improve that, as did Jason with the DP buildings.

The DP buildings require wooden walls to protect them. Jason reckoned he could either increase their hitpoints or toggle them indestructible. If that would be the case. Myself, as an example could reduce my base from 300 pieces to under 50. A hangar + 10 walls makes a very good starter base. To do that before with walls would require around 100 pieces. But nobody wants to risk losing a hangar with all their vehicles inside to some idiot in an apache or a cheetah being careless.

Maybe the resale price of vics and the contents of loot crates should be halved?

Imho. Yes.

Maybe jack the base upkeep even more way way up so only the very rich can afford more than a small box? New players wont be able to throw up a base in their first hour and if the old players want something big they are going to have to pay a hell of a lot for it?

Imho. Yes.

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I see from the database simply reducing the 20 day auto delete for base/vics to 16 days would take a whole lot out. 14 days just seems a little short. 20 sounds fine but for the good of the server a small drop might be a good thing.

Imho. Yes.

If you are taking a long break and are that desperate to keep your stuff you pay a friend or an admin the monies in advance and give them the permissions to pay the rent.

Frames at the trader, what do you think about turning on the Exile auto unlock vics left at trader option. It would be on by default and i expect most other server would leave it on. Im not sure i really like it either but something needs to be done. It was one of our rules on arma2, any vic left unatended inside trader at any time would be deleted no questions asked.

Imho. Yes.

[X8(xeight)]

Pheonix wrote

"I don't know without a greater more definitive understanding of what exactly the lag issue are its hard to say.

ARMA been around a long time chances are good that the reason that caused LAG in the past are the same today. DO how was it handled in the past."

The lag issue is the same as it always was, Arma2 was the same, Arma4 will be the same.

Bohemia Interactive is the problem.

Their programing is suprisingly ameturish for a company with thier success and age.

But aside from thier failings the Arma games were designed to be single player offline only. A co-op feature was added later as an afterthought.

They dont host thier own servers because its not ment to be an online game.

It was never designed to do what we are making it do.

The DayZ mod, Epoch, Exile people, working out of their moms basements, have done an excellent job cobbling together mods that make it work online with some limited success.

Conspiricy theorists say many of the Arma3 patches dont actualy fix anything, they are designed dliberatly just to break exile/epoch for a day or two. Whether or not thats truei have no idea, just what i read on their own forums. They also say that Bohemia band around these rediculous rules such as no donator perks or we shut you down. I havent looked into the laws myself but they say bohemia would have no legal standing to do that. We are playing a game we payed for on our own privately owned server, they have no legal grounds to interfere in any way.

So why all this hostility from them? why dont they want us playing thier game in a slightly different way to intended?

As im sure most of you know, i am from the world of true MMO's, things like Everquest and Warcraft. Thier staff are way older far greater in number and trained over decades to produce the worlds leading MMO's. Sony and Blizzard have the financial power to do it right and do it on a truley massive scale.

They dont have a dedicated server like we have, they have a towerblock for a server and hundreds of staff working round the clock to babysit it.

Their severs are designed to handle hundreds of millions of players similtaneously. Even on my PC i get fps of 100+ and no drop when im standing at the bank surrounded by 70,000 other players on a saturday night.

Some years back when NASA were wanting to upgrade thier server, they went to the Everquest people at Sony to ask thier advice.

So there is a little perspective for you.

I am genuinly suprised that they got Arma working as an MMO at all, and shocked that Fps is in double figures nevermind 30+

Once again, the eye can biologicaly see 22.5 FPS, which is why film is in 24fps and TV in 25fps. anything above 22.5 is a waste. The trouble is maintaining 22.5 when you start to move fast or explosions start to go off.

Idealy when they started this whole thing back with Dayzmod they should have picked a game that was already designed to be an MMO. Something like Battlefield Dayz.

Given what we are working with there is only so much can be done. Our FPS is the same as other comparable servers.

Ultimately the buck stops with bohemia interactive.

Bohemia Interactive is the problem.

[Marshal]

I want to point that there is a lot servers that doing wipe every 6-12 month, as well as I was on server that was doing wipe every 3 months because they had around 80 players daily.

[X8(xeight)]

Yep we had a wipe something like 4 months back, and 3-4 more wipes in the couple months prior to that.

Everytime theres a wipe you lose about a quarter of your players.

Back in the begining when i was just a new player on OGG and had never heard the phrase "server wipe" before. You lost me.

Fletcher convinced me to come back.

In the World of true MMO's there is no such thing as "server wipe" everything ive hoarded for 15+ years on EQ is still there and will always be, my base/house will always be there.

The whole concept of "server wipe" is alien and unnatural to me, you work/play at it for months/years then one day someone decieds to push the "server wipe" button and youre back to zero again?

I understand now why it is nessasary from time to time on Arma. But i feel like im being punished for Bohemia's inability to code a stable game.

[wareagle252]

X8

It was a simple enough thing last time to copy paste thier money/rep from the old database to the new one.

If this was possible I think it would less harsh to wipe the server every so often and refresg.  Atleast to me that way all the hours I put in would atleast translate into something and remain carried over.  

The trader zone unlock code and wipe after 48-72 hours of no movement i think would also help.  

[jaspoe30]

Wareagle252. I did find a way to bring the money/rep over from the DB so I am planning on doing that. I want to make it as easy on the players as I can. Also Corylus the DP buildables are now indestructible but only after a server restart when they save to the database. Prior to that if they are placed during the 4 hours they can still be destroyed until they save. I lowered the prices on them as well in the trader to make them a more attractive alternative.

[SARGE]

You'd the man Jason

And I like to thank all who have added their constructive input to this thread, your perspective and insight is greatly appreciated.

[sam17101]

Hi, I'm Sam and I am very new here... LOL.  However, as I have made this my ARMA 3 home, I thought I'd chime in.  First one post I want to reply to, the one regarding the loot spawn.  I for one like the loot spawns the way they are, its helpful for bambis when they first get in game.  Any way, I enjoy exploring and finding loot in buildings is kinda the reward for that exploration.  As for the server wipe, I understand, but wouldn't it just be easier to set up a rule that if players are not active, say log in at least once every three months, their bases are forfeit and deleted.  This way not every one is forced to start over when people go awol and clutter the server with empty bases.

The next suggestion I'd like to make is a vehicle limit.  I say no more than 1 ground combat, 1 air combat, 1 repair, 1 fuel, 1 ground storage and 1 air storage/lifter.  Six should be more than enough for any one person.  This should also help take the strain off the server.  And for those in groups, limit it to 1 repair and 1 fuel per group.  No reason they cant share, I mean I'm in a group and we had no issues sharing amongst our selves.  Especially with a number code and not a physical in game key.

I would also suggest changing the AI slightly.  Roaming/spawning AI should be limited to specifically Military areas up to x distance from military areas.  Mainly because, if you have say 12 players on, and each player ends up causing a 5 man ai team spawn on them, that's 60 ai units that's now bogging down the server, plus the pre-existing roaming ai.  That's gonna create lag.  But if, instead, you only have random ai spawn when players enter military loot areas, then you may limit the AI spawn to like 20 ai, and save the resources the other 40 ai would have used.  And instead of having a bunch of roaming ai all over, have one roaming ai vehicle that is set to go all over the map, and one roaming ai helli that does the same thing, and then limit the others to a path near military locations.

As for the starting poptaps after the wipe, I'd say 250,000.  Most of your players have spent well over that on vehicles and bases parts and if they are going to start over, 250,000 would be enough to give them a good couple vehicles for missions and to get a base going.  Just my two cents.

Also you had a note up for coders/scripters.  Ive done a lot with Arma 2 so Id be willing to take the time to learn the Arma 3 script and help if you still want/need?

[Corylus]

Arma 3 Server Monetization

From February 1st 2015, anyone is allowed to monetize their Arma 3 server in the following way as long as they're registered, approved and listed on https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/approved/arma3:'>https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/approved/arma3:

•Charging players to access your server, if the fees and associated perks do not affect gameplay in any way, is allowed. Cosmetic perks are allowed. Limiting access to only paying players is allowed.

•Product placement, in-game advertising and sponsorship is allowed.

•Selling of in-game items, that don’t affect gameplay, is allowed.

•Accepting donations is allowed, but to avoid any doubts: not providing donations must not prevent anyone from accessing the content.

If we feel anyone on the list at https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/approved/arma3 is exploiting any loopholes or is not acting in the best interests of the Arma 3 community, we will remove them. That will mean they will have to cease this kind of monetization immediately or face legal action.

Before applying, please check the following FAQ

The permission is given for a limited time. It will expire on January 31st 2017.

[Phoenix]

Pheonix wrote

"I don't know without a greater more definitive understanding of what exactly the lag issue are its hard to say.

ARMA been around a long time chances are good that the reason that caused LAG in the past are the same today. DO how was it handled in the past."

The lag issue is the same as it always was, Arma2 was the same, Arma4 will be the same.

Bohemia Interactive is the problem.

Their programing is suprisingly ameturish for a company with thier success and age.

But aside from thier failings the Arma games were designed to be single player offline only. A co-op feature was added later as an afterthought.

They dont host thier own servers because its not ment to be an online game.

It was never designed to do what we are making it do.

The DayZ mod, Epoch, Exile people, working out of their moms basements, have done an excellent job cobbling together mods that make it work online with some limited success.

Conspiricy theorists say many of the Arma3 patches dont actualy fix anything, they are designed dliberatly just to break exile/epoch for a day or two. Whether or not thats truei have no idea, just what i read on their own forums. They also say that Bohemia band around these rediculous rules such as no donator perks or we shut you down. I havent looked into the laws myself but they say bohemia would have no legal standing to do that. We are playing a game we payed for on our own privately owned server, they have no legal grounds to interfere in any way.

So why all this hostility from them? why dont they want us playing thier game in a slightly different way to intended?

As im sure most of you know, i am from the world of true MMO's, things like Everquest and Warcraft. Thier staff are way older far greater in number and trained over decades to produce the worlds leading MMO's. Sony and Blizzard have the financial power to do it right and do it on a truley massive scale.

They dont have a dedicated server like we have, they have a towerblock for a server and hundreds of staff working round the clock to babysit it.

Their severs are designed to handle hundreds of millions of players similtaneously. Even on my PC i get fps of 100+ and no drop when im standing at the bank surrounded by 70,000 other players on a saturday night.

Some years back when NASA were wanting to upgrade thier server, they went to the Everquest people at Sony to ask thier advice.

So there is a little perspective for you.

I am genuinly suprised that they got Arma working as an MMO at all, and shocked that Fps is in double figures nevermind 30+

Once again, the eye can biologicaly see 22.5 FPS, which is why film is in 24fps and TV in 25fps. anything above 22.5 is a waste. The trouble is maintaining 22.5 when you start to move fast or explosions start to go off.

Idealy when they started this whole thing back with Dayzmod they should have picked a game that was already designed to be an MMO. Something like Battlefield Dayz.

Given what we are working with there is only so much can be done. Our FPS is the same as other comparable servers.

Ultimately the buck stops with bohemia interactive.

Bohemia Interactive is the problem.

Thanks for your reply.

[X8(xeight)]

Quite so, and i cant find the thread now on their forums, they probably deleted it. But people with greater knowledge than I were picking that appart, explaining by the letter of the law quoting legal texts.... blah blah blah.

Explainig how Bohemia would have no legal power to do anything. Just empty threats for no good reason, probably that the comunity has made thier game way better and more popular than they could, and they get no extra money for it.

Wish id made a copy of that thread now, entertaining and informative.

I cant rememer all that was said but some bits were that Bohemia could enforce restrictions if we were playing Arma3 on servers that had some financial link to Bohemia,  Outside of that they have no say in anything.

Once you bought your copy of the game you legaly own the liscense to do whatever you like with it. Play it, mod it, give it to a friend, sell it on, anything you like so long as its non criminal, Dont make coppies to sell, dont use it to plant viruses etc etc.

Bohemia dont do online games, they dont host servers, they generaly ignore the online community. We have to use our own privately owned servers, what we do with them is entirely our own busness.

The biggest point of all is, we are not even playing Arma3. We are playing a heavily modified version of a game called Exile/Epoch/Altis.

Sure it runs on the A3 engine but there are a thousand games out there that use the COD engine or the Crysis Engine etc and you dont see EA or Activision running around threatning everyone.

Anyway, we dont do donator items. All Bohemia have done with this is to turn the comunity against them.

If it wasnt for the popularity of DayZ mod there probably wouldn't have been an Arma3, DayZ jumped ship as soon as they could.

Bohemia should have embraced this, given the Dayz people jobs, worked with them to develop it, but instead sadly A2 dayZ and mod have all but died.

Bohemia have been given a second, thrd and fourth chance with AltisLife, Epoch and Exile but each time they shun the online community, threaten them and chase them off.

But sadly i think we are off topic here.

[Star316]

Is there an exact date when the wipe will be taking place?

[SARGE]

It's not set in stone yet but probably late Saturday night early Sunday is a proposed time. Keep intune with forums and hop on TS to get the latest and updated info.

[wareagle252]

For those who werent online earlier the server wipe already happened.  After the data was backed up and a test on the serber was performed, when Jason tried reloading the database it wouldnt come back up.  So the server was wiped and you should have your poptabs and respect still bit bases and vehicles are gone.

[Blues]

Ah nuts. I really was not expecting a complete server wipe, so it came as a surprise. I guess that is my own fault for not looking at the announcements Would have at least sold some of the vics back before hand, or not bought a few the last couple days.

[Trace]

Got to admit, it has been pretty frustrating getting set up on the server again after the wipe. Also did not know it was coming, an logging in to it all being gone, and having to get started again hasn't been a very good experience. I have enjoyed the server, but today has just been one frustrating death after another just trying to find a new spot to set up. The place I had been was already claimed, and pretty much every time we touched down to check out another spot, we were shot up by AI vics that weren't there a moment before.

Just getting back to the bodies to try and collect the building supplies was two much when two armed AI vics passed by the couple times we tried. Any way, will try again later, just hasn't been much fun today so far. But hey, nice to see the FPS up a bit.